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Lesson 9 and 10: onderhandelen

June 17, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

A small change: as over the last three times, this post covers a full module (two lessons), as I had to replace the online reading material with suggested (Dutch) readings- and it still takes some time to read something worthwhile (businesswise) in Dutch.

This last module is, in my perspective, a summary of all the previous ones: hence, the bibliography is a little bit more extensive.

But read the article (hopefully my Dutch is good enough, otherwise… read the English version!)

A small technical note: if you want to find all the articles in this series, click on the “tag” on the first page “nlschap_business”.

The previous series can be found through “10-4-20”, or the infinitive of a specific verb whose usage example you would like to find, as the title of the series stands for “10 verbs 4 20 weeks” (yes, I have a penchant for 20-week, i.e. 5 months, plans).

In my view, any business meeting is both a communication event and a negotiation of sorts- also when its purpose is just communicating choices.

As negotiation is something I worked on for a long time, I posted an article on my blog, where you can find also other articles on change, negotiations, and communication (both in business and social/political environments, and not just on social media).

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Bibliography:
– Les 9: Wat is onderhandelen
– Les 10: Manieren van onderhandelen
– read the article below (in Dutch or English)

onderhandelen: “the end of the beginning”

20 weken- het is genoeg om zakelijk Nederlands te leren?

wanneer u een taal wilt leren, u moet dat taal gebruik.

dagelijks.

het onderhandelen is cultuursensitief: je moet begrijp hoe uw “counterpart” denkt.

maar ik denk dat u een “holistic” perspectief moet volgen.

opmerking: twee “negotiating parties” betekenen 5 onderhandelingen.

waarom?

1. en 2. wat u en uw “counterpart” zeggen
3. en 4. wat u denkt op de onderhandelingpositie van uw “counterpart” (en vice versa)
5. resultaat van 1+2+3+4.

(meer op mijn blog: mijn Nederlands is niet genoeg te filosoferen!).

boeken op onderhandelen? duizenden- maar iets in Nederlands? Vrij?

verget u niet: een goed “negotiator” moet ook anderen “skills” leren.

daarna, u kan ook 20 boken lesen (van 12 tot 36 bleden).

waarom niet, een boek jede week…

meer? op “Europa.eu” er is “maar weinig” u kan lesen voor uw taal leren oefeningen (vraag GoogleTranslate) πŸ˜‰

negotiating: “the end of the beginning”

20 weeks- is it enough to learn business Dutch?

when you want to learn a language, you must use that language.

on a daily basis.

negotiating is cultural-sensitive: you must understand what your “counterpart” thinks.

but I think that you must follow an “holistic” perspective.

remark: two “negotiating parties” imply 5 negotiations.

why?

1. and 2. what you and your “counterpart” say
3. and 4. what you think on the negotiating position of your “counterpart” (and vice versa)
5. outcome of 1+2+3+4.

(more on my blog: my Dutch is not good enough to philosophize!).

books on negotiating? thousands- but something in Dutch? Free?

don’t forget: a good “negotiator” must learn also other skills.

moreover, you can also read 20 books (from 12 to 36 pages; sorry- only in Dutch!).

why not, a book a week…

more? on “Europa.eu” there are “few things” that you can read for your language learning exercises (ask GoogleTranslate) πŸ˜‰

PS My method is simple- I try to summarize in Dutch, look for additional, relevant material in Dutch (from my library or online), and then see if my text survives Google Translate (i.e. if the English translation of my Dutch makes sense).

PPS of course, I am still in the phase where I think in Dutch through “patterns” that I read in newspapers or books- therefore, sometimes I had disagreements with Google Translate- that I hope to solve later on… either because my Dutch will improve, or Google Translate will evolve (more probable- both!)

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Lesson 7 and 8: vergaderen

June 5, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

A small change: as over the last two times, from now on I will post online once a fortnight, i.e. a full module (two lessons), as I had to replace the online reading material with suggested (Dutch) readings- and it still takes some time to read something worthwhile (businesswise) in Dutch.

This module, in my perspective, is a stepping stone toward the next one, about onderhandelen- negotiations: hence, the bibliography will be shown with the next module.

In my view, any business meeting is both a communication event and a negotiation of sorts- also when its purpose is just communicating choices.

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Bibliography:
– Les 7: De basis van een vergadering
– Les 8: Actief aan een vergadering deelnemen

een vergadering zonder een agenda is… maar een sociaal vergadering.

een agenda vaststellen? betekent een onderhandeling.

of… het is maar een presentatie.

Ik weet niet hoeveel vergaderingen ik had in mijn carrière.

nuttige? soms.

maar soms vergaderingen beantworden aan een officieus doel…

… “damage control”.

vergaderingen? nee, onderhandelingen.

wat jammer- 50% van het module 4 was op notuleren en stenografie… een verkwistende tijd gebruik!

a meeting without an agenda is… just a social gathering.

but setting an agenda implies a negotiation.

or… you are just making a presentation.

I do not even know how many meetings I had across my career.

useful? sometimes.

but sometimes meetings had just an unofficial purpose…

… “damage control”.

meetings? no, negotiations.

what a pity- 50% of module 4 talked about taking notes and stenography… a wasteful use of time!

PS My method is simple- I try to summarize in Dutch, look for additional, relevant material in Dutch (from my library or online), and then see if my text survives Google Translate (i.e. if the English translation of my Dutch makes sense).

PPS of course, I am still in the phase where I think in Dutch through “patterns” that I read in newspapers or books- therefore, sometimes I had disagreements with Google Translate- that I hope to solve later on… either because my Dutch will improve, or Google Translate will evolve (more probable- both!)

Lesson 5 and 6: presenteren

May 22, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

A small change: as last time, from now on I will post online once a fortnight, i.e. a full module (two lessons), as I had to replace the online reading material with suggested (Dutch) readings- and it still takes some time to read something worthwhile (businesswise) in Dutch.

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Bibliography:
– Les 5: Voorbereiding
– Les 6: Uitvoering
– H. Van Rompuy “Op zoek naar wijsheid”, Davidsfonds/Leuven 2007

monotoon- 90% procent
interessant- 9% procent
boeiend- 1% procent

denkt u aan uw publiek als uw “target”?

ik schrijfte talloos presentaties- en ik heb de kans gehad om iets leren.

deze laatste twee weken ik heb een boek gelezen (“op zoek naar wijsheid”).

waarom?

het boek van Mr. Van Rompuy is niet een “traditionele” biografie: 18 presentaties.

bent u aan het schrijven van uw eerste presentatie in het Nederlands? lees het boek πŸ˜‰

ik heb het in BelgiΓ« aangekocht- nieuwsgierigheid en ook omdat… ik was op zoek naar iets interessant.

is dat “wijsheid” de basis van uw presentatie?

wijsheid? “de wijze… hij is een man van de praktijk”.

hoeveel presentaties met steeds meer “slides” dan u nodig had… zag u?

uw praktijk wijsheid moet met een begrip beginnen…

u moet uw publiek respecteren πŸ˜‰

monotone-90% percent
interesting-9% percent
captivating-1% percent

Do you think of your audience as your “target “?

I wrote countless presentations and I’ve had the chance to learn something.

these last two weeks I have read a book (“in search of wisdom”).

Why?

the book by Mr.. Van Rompuy is not a “traditional” biography: 18 presentations.

you’re writing your first presentation in Dutch? read the book;)

I bought it in Belgium, curiosity and also because … I was looking for something interesting.

is that “wisdom” the foundation of your presentation?

wisdom? “The wise … is a practical man.”

how many presentations with more “slides” than you needed … did you see?

your practical wisdom must begin with an understanding …

you must respect your audience;)

PS My method is simple- I try to summarize in Dutch, look for additional, relevant material in Dutch (from my library or online), and then see if my text survives Google Translate (i.e. if the English translation of my Dutch makes sense).

PPS of course, I am still in the phase where I think in Dutch through “patterns” that I read in newspapers or books- therefore, sometimes I had disagreements with Google Translate- that I hope to solve later on… either because my Dutch will improve, or Google Translate will evolve (more probable- both!)

Lesson 3 and 4: telefoneren

May 9, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Bibliography:
– Les 3 Telefoneren- alledaagse situaties
– Les 4: Telefoneren- niet-alledaagse situaties

vandaag, een 2-for-1: ik ben laat, en… les 3 en les 4 zijn maar twee halven van een appel πŸ™‚

van wat voor thema? het telefoneren- en een afspraak maken.

saai πŸ˜€

les 4 is meer interessant: een dag zonder uw mobiel telefoon.

“een dagje geen telefoon”: maar een experiment?

Ik denk dat ons 100% bereikbaarheid niet een sociale evolutie is: u maak uwzelf een kritiek bestanddeel van uw communication network.

en u beschadigt uw “teamwork”.

wij vragen continue bereikbaarheid? Ja.

hebben we het nodig? Soms.

mijn idee? ons elektronisch apparaaten hebben een fantastisch “feature”: het “off” button; en ook het “voice mailbox”.

een prachtige gelegenheid om uw “teambrain” te verbeteren.

Today, a 2-for-1: I’m late, and … Lesson 3 and Lesson 4 are but two halves of an apple:)

The kind of theme? to call and make an appointment.

Boring: D

Lesson 4 is more interesting: one day without your mobile phone.

“a pleasant day without phone”: just an experiment?

I think that our 100% accessibility is not a social evolution: you make yourself a critical part of your communication network.

And you damage your “teamwork”.

Do we ask continuous availability? Yes.

Do we need it? Sometimes.

My idea? our electronic devices have a great “feature”: the “off” button; and also the “voice mailbox”.

A wonderful opportunity to improve your “teambrain”.

PS My method is simple- I try to summarize in Dutch, look for additional, relevant material in Dutch (from my library or online), and then see if my text survives Google Translate (i.e. if the English translation of my Dutch makes sense).

PPS of course, I am still in the phase where I think in Dutch through “patterns” that I read in newspapers or books- therefore, sometimes I had disagreements with Google Translate- that I hope to solve later on… either because my Dutch will improve, or Google Translate will evolve (more probable- both!)

PPPS I stopped showing the lessons from the online Business Dutch reading course: it was free and accessible when I followed it in 2009, but while I still have my copy, the exercises and my results, I saw that now you have to enrol and sign up; therefore, I will keep scouting the websites of Dutch newspapers for relevant articles (or add book references- a surprise next week)

Lesson 2: cultuur en vermaak

April 24, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Tweede les van het boek “Ter Zake”.

Het eerste les concentreerde op het standpunt van een Finse baas in Nederland.

Maar wat voor standpunt hebben allochtone managers?

Les 2 is een “voorgerecht” voor uw brein… terwijl het derde gespecialiseerde module van “Business Dutch Reading Course” geeft u meer informatie, op allochtone managers in Nederland.

We vragen immigranten om te zich conformeren, maar… de integratie niet een “one way” weg is.

Toen ik in Gothenburg “Intercultural communication and management” studeerde, denkte ik: “it takes two to tango” (verwijz naar bibliografie)

Keuzes… πŸ™‚

Bibliografie:
– Les 2 Cultuur en vermaak
– U3: allochtone managers nog altijd dun gezaaid (“Gespecialiseerde module” op http://tinyurl.com/3ukc6jg)
– Fons Tuinstra, “Het Andere Oosten – 15 misverstanden over China en de Chinezen”, Pandora ISBN 90-467-0084-4

The first lesson focused on the position of a Finnish boss in The Netherlands.

But which kind of position have foreign managers?

Lesson 2 is a “starter” for your brain … while the third specialized module of the “Business Dutch Reading Course” gives you more information on ethnic minority managers in The Netherlands.

We ask immigrants to conform, but … the integration is not a one-way road.

While I studied in Gothenburg “Intercultural communication and management”, I thought: “it takes two to tango” (refer to the bibliography)

Choices … πŸ™‚

Bibliography:
– Lesson 2 Culture and entertainment
– U3: ethnic minority managers are still sparse (‘Specialist module on http://tinyurl.com/3ukc6jg)
– Fons Tuinstra, “The Other East – 15 misunderstandings about China and the Chinese, ” Pandora ISBN 90-467-0084-4

PS My method is simple- I try to summarize in Dutch, look for additional, relevant material in Dutch (from my library or online), and then see if my text survives Google Translate (i.e. if the English translation of my Dutch makes sense).

PPS of course, I am still in the phase where I think in Dutch through “patterns” that I read in newspapers or books- therefore, sometimes I had disagreements with Google Translate- that I hope to solve later on… either because my Dutch will improve, or Google Translate will evolve (more probable- both!)

Lesson 1: meeting somebody

April 13, 2011

this second start has the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university), following the original series 10-4-20 published in 2009.

First, my comments on the lesson- in Dutch.

Then, the English original.

Followed by any comment that either marks the mistakes or offers a new Dutch version πŸ™‚

Ik zal nu beginnen- eerste les van het boek “Ter Zake”.

Maar ik geloof dat wij iets meer moeten leren.

ik zou moeten ook het “Business Dutch Reading Course” gebruiken.

Vandaag, de eerste les op cultuur (bedrijfcultuur) en cultuurverschillen:
– Les 1 Contact maken
– U1: islamitisch bankieren sterk in opkomst (“Gespecialiseerde module” op http://www.dutch.ac.uk/reading_courses/business_dutch/homepages/module_2.html)

U zou moeten zien dat onze klein wereld niet zo klein is: wij moeten cultuurverschillen niet vergeten.

I will now begin the first lesson of the book “Ter Zake”.

But I think that we have something more to learn.

I should use also “Business Dutch Course Reading”.

Today, the first lesson on culture (corporate culture) and cultural differences:
– Lesson 1 Making contact
– U1: Islamic banking is growing rapidly (‘Specialist module on http://www.dutch.ac.uk/reading_courses/business_dutch/homepages/module_2.html)

You should see that our small world is not so small: we must not forget cultural differences.

Het tweede start :)

April 2, 2011

er is geen start als het eerste
maar elk eindje ook een start is πŸ™‚

meaning (hopefully):
a second start πŸ™‚
there is no start as the first one
but each small end is also a start πŸ™‚

almost one year ago I shifting just to keep reading newspapers online

the first start had the purpose of sharing a post-A2 learning process

this second start has instead the purpose of consolidating the reading skills acquired since late 2009 (thanks to an online Business Dutch reading course delivered by a British university)

focusing, this time, on the learning experience to resurrect the formal A2, add active (or at least passive) spoken Business Dutch skills, using once in a while articles by online Dutch newspapers.

my aim is the same I applied in other projects: consolidating the new skills acquired, to be able to resurrect them when needed

i.e. shift from extended short-term memory to deep long-term memory, the one that requires some “carburation” to recover its content πŸ™‚

I had the chance to rummage for few hours through Brussels’ bookshops (I was even told that I should not dream, as no such book exists :D)

the one I found? “Ter Zake – Zakelijlk Nederlands voor anderstalingen”, published by http://www.intertaal.nl, marked as B1, also if the last section, on “onderhandelen” (negotiations) brings to level B2/C1

my first review of the book is: if you went through that Business Dutch reading course I referred to before, based on reviewing articles from Dutch newspapers and other sources, you will be acquainted with most of the language

read the online free grammar (the one that I translated in Italian in 2009, available in English on dutchgrammar.com, and as a draft without tables in Italian on robertolofaro.com): that will cover more than what is needed to understand the “Ter Zake” course.

beside a quick review of the book, I listened to the audio part- in my limited experience with Dutch-speakers, it is spoken at a slower speed than the real one

so, if you want to join on this 10 weeks journey… you are welcome to send in comments (yes, including suggestions to improve what I will write in Dutch)

as in the previous 20 weeks worth of articles, if you report mistakes, typos, etc, I will add a comment with your link and the amendment

meanwhile, you can contact me on http://www.linkedin.com/in/robertolofaro or @robertolofaro if you have suggestions or other information, and join me on Facebook if you prefer to send longer messages

as for announces on the new articles on nlschap… follow on twitter @nlschap.

have a nice week-end!

R

Het spijt me…

April 28, 2010

… maar ik had geen tijd (en niemand :D) om in het Nederlands taal te spreken (of the schrijven)

Tagelijk, ik lees- maar horen en spreken… dat al ander is πŸ˜€

I geloof dat mijn “taal erkentnisse” (ja, Duits+Nederlands :D) is… A-1, niet A2 πŸ˜€

Wachten, a.u.b.

Ich geloof dat ik iets zal schrijven πŸ™‚

Ok what you read above is my attempt at writing again impromptu in Dutch after few months.

By design more than by accident (I still have access to all my dictionaries) I decided to quite simply add a post in Dutch, with nothing more than my memory to sail me through the treacherous tides of Dutch syntax.

Did I came safely ashore? Only my Dutch-speaking friends can say πŸ˜€

But… I have another reason to post this “how clumsy my Dutch is” posting- today, I had quite a few people registering for my twitter (http://www.twitter.com/nlschap)

So, I deserve to deliver at least a token gesture of appreciation

And, before some wise guy/gal say anything smart… as I wrote here and there, true or fake, I do not care.

Behind any online profile there is, in the end, a real person.

I chose to have a true profile everywhere I post since I started my online experiments, but online you can be anything and anybody you want to be πŸ™‚

See you again online. In Dutch, hopefully.

Oh, and before I forget: the few Dutchy (i.e. it looks like Dutch, sounds like Dutch, but it is not Dutch- hey, I am in Belgium, Magritte’s country :D) phrases above was supposed to mean: “I am sorry… but I had no time (and nobody :D) to speak (or write) Dutch with

Every day, I read- but listening and talking… it is a completely different game πŸ˜€

I believe that my “language knowledge” (yes, German+Dutch :D) is… A-1, not A2 πŸ˜€

Please wait.

I believe that I will write something πŸ™‚

PS- and, anyway, most of the new addition were just spammers, removed automatically πŸ˜€
PPS probably due to a posting on my twitter this morning about what I was eating for breakfast πŸ˜€

10-4-20 ending

November 29, 2009

(10-4-20: The Language Game – ending)
(draft 2009-10-26)
It is just appropriate that, as the last verb, the “lottery model” that I used delivered “zwijgen”, which means “be silent, fall silent”.

het grappige is dat nu misschijn ik ga niet meer het Nederlands gebruiken.
the funniest part is that now maybe I will no more use Dutch.

maar het leren van een nieuwe taal altijd grappige is.
but learning a new language is always funny.

mistakes? certainly.
fouten? zeker.

maar je moet lopen voor je rennt
but you have to walk before you run.

nu ik kan lezen en begrijpen πŸ™‚
now I can read and understand πŸ™‚

wat u weet zal u niet vergeten.
what you know you shall not forget.

als ik zal het Nederland nog altijd gebruiken, zal ik meer schrijven.
if I will still use Dutch, I will write something more.

toch, succes met uw Nederlands leren activiteiten
anyway, good luck with your Dutch learning activities

ik zal alweer online zijn… met een andere taal!
I will once again be online… with another language!

10-4-20_20 will I remember?

November 23, 2009

(10-4-20: The Language Game – Part 20 of 20)
(draft 2009-10-26)
First, the verbs.

Then, the English original

Finally, my attempt, followed by all the comments that either mark the mistakes or propose a new version πŸ™‚

The verbs

breken, brak, h i gebroken
to break
gaan, ging, i gegaan
to go
herinneren, herinnerde, h herinnerd
to recall, remember, remind
laden, laadde, h geladen
to load
nemen, nam, h genomen
to take
scheppen, schiep, h geschapen
to create
springen, sprong, h i gesprongen
to burst, explode, jump, leap, spring
veranderen, veranderde, h i veranderd
to alter, change
wensen, wenste, h gewenst
to wish

x

zwemmen, zwom, h i gezwommen
to swim

will I remember?

break [breken] the waves while swimming [zwemmen]
jump [springen] to go [gaan] on top (bovenop)
but remember [herinneren]: do not overload (te zwaar beladen) yourself
take [nemen] your time to alter [veranderen] your routine.
and you will create [scheppen] what you wish [wensen].

zal ik het me herinneren?

Breek de golven terwijl je zwemt.
Spring om bovenop te gaan
maar herinner: belaad jezelf niet te zwaar
neem je tijd om jou routine te veranderen
en je zal scheppen wat wenst je.